President Obama promised he still wants to get it done…
Activists started dark murmurings about November and the Latino vote… And the clock continued to run on this session of Congress, each new day slimming the chances a massive immigration reform could be passed before the midterm elections.
Then, Arizona threw a smoke bomb into the middle of the proceedings, bringing heat and obscuring the future of the debate. SB1070 brings local officers into the field of federal immigration enforcement. Officers can check the immigration status of the people they come across in the course of police work.
It certainly got people’s attention.
Sympathetic state legislators in at least ten other states are looking at getting similar laws passed. Activists who want to give illegal immigrants a path to citizenship were furious and promised to kick their efforts into high gear as well. The new Arizona has energized the combatants in one of the longest-running and most contentious issues in the culture wars, and… so what?
Maybe nothing. SB1070 refocuses attention on the bubbling-under immigration debate, but it certainly doesn’t change any minds. Those who were hostile to the idea of a path to citizenship for the millions living in the country illegally, still are. Those who would make it easier for those millions to gain legal status, still favor it. SB1070 may be an interesting new ingredient in the bubbling stew of immigration debate… but is it anything more than that?
This week Destination Casa Blanca welcomed four guests to the desk in Washington to discuss the legal, and political landscape that faces comprehensive immigration reform. Rep. Luis Gutierrez of Illinois, who has spent his 17 years on the Hill becoming an acknowledged expert in immigration law. In the early years of his time as a congressman, he spearheaded efforts to help people given amnesty under the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act full US citizenship. He started English and civics classes, travelled the country urging new legal residents to naturalize and vote.
You won’t be surprised to find out Rep. Gutierrez is against SB1070, and adds nothing to the current debate over immigration reform. He concedes that legislators in Arizona have a point when they say they acted because the federal government has not. But the congressman takes that point in a different direction: all the more reason, he says, to act on the new bills circulating in the House and Senate.
This edition of Destination Casa Blanca was a two-hour special, in response to the interest in this issue around the country. You can watch excerpts from the extended conversation with Rep. Gutierrez at http://www.hitn.tv/dcb/
In the second hour of the program, we were joined by Eleanor Pelta of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, Laura Vasquez of the National Council of La Raza, and Jack Martin of FAIR, the Federation for American Immigration Reform. In the second hour the conversation focused more closely on SB1070, its constitutionality, and the prospects for racial profiling in Arizona under the new law.
Laura Vasquez and Eleanor Pelta both doubt the constitutionality of the law, and say its enforcement will almost certainly cause a disparate impact for Latinos in Arizona, regardless of their immigration status. Jack Martin replied that under SB1070, Arizona police officers would not be pulling Latinos off the street to check their papers. It would only be when residents of the state came into contact with law enforcement for other reasons that officers would check on legal status in the country.
It was observed that everyone in Arizona who might be suspected of being out of status would now have to carry documents all the time, just in case their presence in the country is challenged. Martin observed those fears were exaggerated, and that SB1070 doesn’t really change what police are doing in many other states, where local law enforcement has been cooperating with the Obama Administration on immigration enforcement.
The debates over immigration are too often unsatisfactory, emotional, and dishonest. Dishonest because they don’t force the debaters to get down to basics and say what they really mean. As long as they can get away with that, the conversation can be grounded in airy abstractions, imprecise pronouncements, and general frabba-jabba… to use the technical political science term.
Those who bring up crime in conjunction with the debate are rarely challenged by reporters who enter the encounter armed with the data that show illegal immigrants less often commit crimes that those in the general population (apart from just being here, which is a kind of existential crime, I guess). Again and again politicians slide innuendoes about crime and terrorism into the conversation, though the connection with drywallers and landscapers, busboys, hairdressers and nannies is never really explained.
On the other side of the question, there is also a comfort with eliding some facts… or at least an unwillingness to confront some of the knottier challenges involved in creating a path to citizenship for millions of illegal residents. In skilled and unskilled lines of work that have gradually shifted to a reliance on immigrant labor, especially illegal immigrant labor, the prevailing wage rates have not only failed to keep up with inflation, but declined. The competition with naturalized and native-born workers has, in some jobs, started a race to the bottom that won’t just stop because people are made legal. Americans may support legality… but they don’t necessarily support suburban houses that cost more money or three-dollar strawberries.
Yes, legal status will give workers more bargaining power.What I would like to hear in the ongoing debate is a real-life discussion of how entire industries that have crafted their business models and profitability around low-cost labor will really be able to cope with a significant change to their labor costs.
Yup, immigrant advocates are right when they say the workers whose exploitation creates profits for businesses large and small are unfairly treated. Because of the shallowness of the ongoing battles no one has to talk about who will pay when, for example, millions more people are brought into the health care system… Hundreds of thousands qualify for Pell Grants and subsidized student loans… And the millions who pay taxes for benefits they can never collect on, like Social Security, unemployment insurance, disability, will now not only pay, but collect.
The full cost of action, and inaction, when it comes to millions of people living in the shadows, is going to have to be dealt with openly, and bluntly, by all sides of the argument, before we can arrive at some common wisdom about how to fix the problem. Even the biggest optimists are losing hope about a solution, or even a solid proposal, before the mid-term elections. After January, will a more Republican house and senate be ready to deal?
What do you think? Let us know what’s on your mind. You can be sure we’ll be coming back to the issue in future programs. Take a look at the excerpts here at the site.
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MR. Ray Suarez
I emphatically believe in controlling our borders. It’s like having your property protected on every side, except for your front door, its wide open.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform is it really, what, and who wants it? I have heard this from every lip in the nation, sounds like a religious lip service.
I say put your money where your mouth is. And let’s do it, Yes we can! These are words from someone I believed in, now, I have my doubts. I realize that it’s not as easy, as it sounds.
BUT, how long would it take me, or you, and you, to hang a solid core door for my home, for the protection against the elements, intruders, every Tom, Dick, and Harry, and against those that would love to destroy our families and our way of living.
We need someone that can dispense with the theory of “Political Correctness” For there is no one, or anything in this world that’s perfect, and let’s have someone who has the initiative to say, yes we can, and yes we will, right NOW!
I’m against the new immigration law in Arizona it’s a mockery to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Anyone, from any walk of life, doesn’t have to have an educational degree to comprehend that; the so call immigration law in Arizona isn’t about “Immigration” And if it’s not about immigration, what is it!
I have heard a lot of political speeches pros and cons, since the “Arizona Law” but I was moved by Rep. Luis Gutierrez, I believe he is right on, he reminded me of Cesar Chavez: Labor Leader. Now, that’s the type of human being we need in the “Casa Blanca”
My name is Ralph Chacon. I’m a native of California of mixed blood, Chumash native/ Mexican. I’m a 100 percent disable Vietnam War veteran and I’m, DAM MAD! Will I be stopped, to show my papers?
Thank you for the opportunity to voice my concerns.
Ralph Chacon
I love your program Mr.Suarez.My complements to Mr Gutierrez for his effort on the immigration reform.
If you asked any anglo here in America where they came from, they all can pintpont their origin to another country and would probably say “I’am part Irish,Dutch,German” ect. and that’s because they all came from somewhere else. They don’t want to stop crime and illegal emmigration. They want to stop latinos from becoming a majority. I do not see raids on anglos who are here illegally from other countries, just as I do not see raids of arabs or asians.
Well, i was watching an interview with Jack Martin from FAIR, Eleanor Pelta from AILA, and Laura Vazquez from NCLR. I think that the discussion is interesting because they were discussing the new Arizona law. I agree in a way with what Jack Martin said about the fact that the new law says a police officer can only asks for immigration papers when under the right circumstances. Like if the officer pulls over a bad driver and the driver doesn’t have a license. I get why the driver would be in suspicion. But, my problem with the law is that not all officers are saints. In fact, quite the opposite. We can’t assume that officers won’t pull someone over for race. Because racists are out there, whether we like it or not. It’s a liability, because Arizona is a big state and there’s bound to be officers that will take advantage of this new law to get their frustrations with immigrants out.
hola mi comentario sobre la racista e antiimigrante nueva ley de arizona es la siguiente por una parte estuvo muy bien que la gobewrnadora le diera el tiro de gracia a sdu estado por que el tiro de gracia tal vez se pregunten? por que asi todos los latinos se marcharan a otros estados y si eso pasa que pasara con con la mano de obra en arizona aquien trataran como animales quien comprara en los comercios aquien le daran multas grandes la policia so que bien pero ojala y las consecuencias de esta estupida ley se noten y se remarquen muy bien para que vean que si necesitan de los mojado por que a los mojados como a mi senos paga y se nostrata como terroristas o criminales y creo que si esta ley ayuda haber este estado en bancarrota que bien por que asi se darancuenta que necesitan de los mojados como yo para salir adelante…
I really liked the program with Luis Gutierez. He is right, we need comprehensive immigration reform NOW. Not only Latinos suffer as immigrants in the US but also many who come from Europe. Many that have no papers are very well educated, but because of the current laws, even though they came to this country legally, they were forced into the shadows. Many permanent residents have spouses who don’t have legal status, and there is no way to adjust it at this point. This destroying many families and marriages that otherwise not only would contribute to the economy and society but also be happy couples. Many of the people have been living in this country for years and even decades, most pay taxes and SS. How can the US, a so called country of immigrants bully, disrespect and discriminate against immigrants, and ruin their lives? This is so unamerican and we need to talk about it more and force the government to pass comprehensive immigration reform or at least something that Clinton did 245i, which allowed for adjustment of status of undocumented immigrants who had families with legal status in the US.
Actually, Mr. Suarez, illegal aliens do commit crimes at a higher rate than the general population. The only statistics available include both illegal and legal aliens. Legal resident aliens are screened by our immigration folks before they enter the country, so as a class they are probably make better citizens than the average Americans. Advocates generally lump illegals with legal residents, which together tend to reduce their crime rate when taken as a group. And when taken as a class by themselves,unless we wish to turn our back on the fact that illegal aliens often commit fraud by falsifying I-9 work papers and steal Social Security numbers to get work, and often misrepresent themselves as citizens, also a crime, it can hardly be said that they are more honest than the average citizen.
@Amy McFeel………”How can the US, a so called country of immigrants bully, disrespect and discriminate against immigrants, and ruin their lives?”
Well, Amy, maybe it’s because we don’t recognize people who overstay their visas or cross our borders contrary to our laws as immigrants, anymore than we view British visitors on a holiday to Disney World in Florida as immigrants. Only people who come to this country on our terms are immigrants, otherwise we cede control of our sovereignty to foreigners.
You are correct Ali, not all policemen are saints, however, any law can be perverted to misuse by the police. If we were to take your approach, we’d never enact any laws at all, because we’d always be afraid of the abuse of police powers. The truth is that the real agenda of activists who object to the law is that it will work. Activists disingenuously get self righteous in order to obstruct our immigration law. They constantly rant that immigration law is the solve purview of the federal government, all the well knowing that the federal government cannot do the job. And if the federal government was successful they’d cry foul and continue to find ways of obstructing any effort to do this. I think most Americans are wise to this by now.
So just how many more times should amnesty be granted. These amnesties only encourage more illegal immigration. By granting amnesty, the government is basically saying that quotas to immigrate to the U.S. legally do not matter. So should we jsut say, “come one, come all”? The is what happens when amnesty is granted. I do not agree with that concept. We need to have quotas for legal immigration and all illegal immigration stopped. It seems as though every enforcement measure is opposed by one group or the other. Just what can we do to stop illegal immigration?
First, “Ralph Chacon”, thank you for your service to the country, and I’m sorry that you’re disabled. Yes, you may have to present your ID if you’re stopped in Arizona and the circumstances lead the officer to “reasonably suspect” that you may be in the country illegally.
And, yes, “Ali”, there may be a few officers who will abuse their authority. But that’s true of any law; it would be those few officers who are bad, not the laws. Hopefully, those officers would be weeded out and prosecuted, if possible.
As the article points out, people on both “sides” of the immigration mess should be dealing with facts and not over-blown rhetoric. Like it or not, polls show that a large majority of Americans want stronger enforcement of the immigration laws. Polls also show that a small majority of Americans DO NOT favor deporting all aliens who are here illegally. An honest debate, rather than the ranting and raving by both sides, would go a long way toward reaching a concensus on immigration.
Guti is wrong on the Arizona law. He and many others haven’t even read the law.
It mimics the existing federal law. People like Guti make it sound like all immigrantes are legal there is no difference between illegal and legal. Congress passed an amnesty in 1986 and look what it got us. No President will enforce our existing laws and say they are broken. The only thing broken is the way the President picks which laws he wants to enforce. If amnesty is passed nothing will change business will still bring in illegal workers and now we have people here who do not want to be American citizens all they what is our jobs and social services. Right now 8 million illegal aliens have American jobs, how is that fair to American citizens, “yes they wil do the jobs”. If you ask the illegals aliens who would become citizens which country would they support, it would be Mexico not America. They don’t want to asimulate, they want all us to speak their language as you can tell in the video none of the people interviewed could speak english. To become a citizen you must be able to read and write english. Now say these people became citizens, why are we still printing every thing in spanish. No asimulation no America as we know it today. My family came from Mexico and the first thing my father said to me, “we are in another country respect there laws and learn there customs and language”. We asimulated and didn’t for get our heritage.
querido congresista luis gutierrez me dirijo a usted no sin antes felicitarlo x su estupenda labor hacia los derechos de nosotros los latinos y la comunidad inmigrante que dia a dia aunque estadoa unidos no lo quiera recono cer echa pa lante a este pais. yo soy ciudadana americana desde que naci soy boricua al igual q usted y me llena de orgullo que uno de los mios luche x los derechos de los inmigrantes latinos en este pais a mi me toca de cerca la inestabilidad de una reforma migratoria x que mi esposo y yo nos queremos ir a puerto rico mi pais a establecernos alla y no puedo obligatoriamente me tengo q quedar en este pais x mi esposo solo x q las leyes de mi pais son iguales a este pais y no puedo llevarme a mi esposo conmigo. tengo a mi madre, mis hijos,mi casa y mi trabajo alla y sufro como cualquier inmigrante xq mi familia tambien se encuentra dividida si no puede el presidente x el cual yo vote y gano con el voto hispano y ahora ni se acuerda de nosotros tener una reforma migratoria pues entonces q ayude a unos cuantos alante bajando la ley 245 I como hizo bill cinton que beneficio a unos cuantos .me quiero ir a mi pais pero quiero que mi esposo entre legalmente a mi pais y hacer nuestra vida alla. soy enfermera en mi pais tengo mi trabajo en san sebastian y mi casa usted tambien es de san sebastian hable una vez mientras atendia a su senora madre en la oficina del dr y aminda me dijo que tenia un hijo que es congresista en estados unidos que se llama luis gutierrez y ahora le pido a usted que sabe mucho de todas estas leyes y derechos de los inmigrantes si puede haber una manera de yo ayudar a mi esposo para que el pueda tener sus papeles he irnos a puerto rico a instalarnos alla y poder estar en nuestra casa yo volver a mi trabajo estar cerca de mis hijos con mi madre y mi esposo todos juntos y tener una vida normal en mi pais . le agradezco x su tiempo saludos que DIOS lo siga bendiciendo y gracias x su lucha diaria en pro de nuestra comunidad latina inmigrante y sus derechos nuestra comunidad inmigrante que ahora esta sufriendo el racismo de este pais como lo hemos sufrido alguna que otra vez los boricuas aun siendo ciudadanos americanos gracias que DIOS le bendiga.
querido congresista luis gutierrez me dirijo a usted no sin antes felicitarlo x su estupenda labor hacia los derechos de nosotros los latinos y la comunidad inmigrante que dia a dia aunque estadoa unidos no lo quiera recono cer echa pa lante a este pais. yo soy ciudadana americana desde que naci soy boricua al igual q usted y me llena de orgullo que uno de los mios luche x los derechos de los inmigrantes latinos en este pais a mi me toca de cerca la inestabilidad de una reforma migratoria x que mi esposo y yo nos queremos ir a puerto rico mi pais a establecernos alla y no puedo obligatoriamente me tengo q quedar en este pais x mi esposo solo x q las leyes de mi pais son iguales a este pais y no puedo llevarme a mi esposo conmigo. tengo a mi madre, mis hijos,mi casa y mi trabajo alla y sufro como cualquier inmigrante xq mi familia tambien se encuentra dividida si no puede el presidente x el cual yo vote y gano con el voto hispano y ahora ni se acuerda de nosotros tener una reforma migratoria pues entonces q ayude a unos cuantos alante bajando la ley 245 I como hizo bill cinton que beneficio a unos cuantos .me quiero ir a mi pais pero quiero que mi esposo entre legalmente a mi pais y hacer nuestra vida alla. soy enfermera en mi pais tengo mi trabajo en san sebastian y mi casa usted tambien es de san sebastian hable una vez mientras atendia a su senora madre en la oficina del dr y aminda me dijo que tenia un hijo que es congresista en estados unidos que se llama luis gutierrez y ahora le pido a usted que sabe mucho de todas estas leyes y derechos de los inmigrantes si puede haber una manera de yo ayudar a mi esposo para que el pueda tener sus papeles he irnos a puerto rico a instalarnos alla y poder estar en nuestra casa yo volver a mi trabajo estar cerca de mis hijos con mi madre y mi esposo todos juntos y tener una vida normal en mi pais . le agradezco x su tiempo saludos que DIOS lo siga bendiciendo y gracias x su lucha diaria en pro de nuestra comunidad latina inmigrante y sus derechos nuestra comunidad inmigrante que ahora esta sufriendo el racismo de este pais como lo hemos sufrido alguna que otra vez los boricuas aun siendo ciudadanos americanos gracias que DIOS le bendiga.
El programa de Destination Casa Blanca, me parece muy importante, no hablo mucho ingles, lo que puedo entender es muy poco, me gustaria que colocaran la traduccion, estoy segura que hay muchos hispanos que se encuentran en mi situacion.
Gracias,
In’es
Is really important to know different opinions about this issue, many times people comment about something remarking only the negative effects, but never the positive side of the problem. Is not totally true that immigrants do not like to assimilate the American culture. The true is different, there are exceptions, because I know many people who are learning this language, adults, men and women. if we visit community centers we can see what I’m saying. What I think is that we have to assimilate the positive things of this culture and never forget where we come from. The leaders like Luis Gutierrez, are the kind of people that our community needs in order to get an immigration reform.
El programa Casa Blanca ha hecho mucho por muchas personas, lo recomiendo.
Saludos.
Hola, muchas gracias por estos datos, estoy muy interesado sobre estos temas y todo esto me sirve mucho, gracias…